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John Bellamy Foster on Ecological Marxism

In this extensive interview, John Bellamy Foster, the editor of the long-established and prestigious US-based socialist journal Monthly Review and professor emeritus of sociology at the University of Oregon, discusses ecological Marxism, on which topic Bellamy Foster is an acknowledged global expert, with Jia Keqing, a research fellow at the Academy of Marxism of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

Bellamy Foster begins by noting that the term ecological Marxism is widely used in China, but elsewhere the term ecosocialism is more widely used. Ecosocialism, he notes, has a complex history, with a number of its proponents in the 1980s and early 90s coming out of the Marxist and New Left traditions but being highly critical of Karl Marx and the classical Marxist tradition as a whole. “This also involved, in some cases, attempts to wed Marx with other figures, such as Thomas Malthus (falsely viewed as an environmental figure) or Karl Polanyi, who provided a more social-democratic political economy… Much of this was coloured by reactions at the time to the demise of the Soviet Union and attempts to distance ecosocialism from core Marxist traditions.”

However, from the late 1990s, such views began to be challenged by other ecosocialists rooted primarily in the unearthing of Marx’s own ecological critique. Marx, Bellamy Foster notes, “was strongly critical of the Cartesian mechanistic separation of human beings and animals and defended Darwinian evolution, emphasising the human coevolutionary relation to the natural world. He also emphasised the close affinity in terms of intelligence of nonhuman animal species and human beings, and he criticised the brutality toward nonhuman animals that arose within capitalist production… He also indicated that we relate to nature not simply through our production but also sensuously, and through our conceptions of beauty, that is, aesthetically… One of the most brilliant insights of Xi Jinping, in line with both traditional Chinese civilisation and Marxism, was to recognise that the concept of ecological civilisation was not quite enough, and that it needed to be supplemented by a notion of ‘beautiful China’. That is, our aesthetic relation to nature, and thus the intrinsic value of nature, was seen as so important that it needed to be emphasised separately.”

Discussing the relationship between ecological issues and the class struggle, Bellamy Foster traces things back to Friedrich Engels’s 1845 work, The Condition of the Working Class in England: “Engels did not start his analysis with the exploitation of factory workers and conditions in the workplace, though that occupies part of the book, but rather with the capitalist city, housing conditions, air and water pollution, the spread of disease and illnesses of all kinds, and the much higher mortality rate of the working class. In this sense, his work was ecological as much or more than it was economic.

“The struggles of the working class in the early nineteenth century were a product of their whole living conditions, not just factory conditions, even if it was their ability to stop production that was the basis of their class power… For Marx and Engels, working-class struggles were not restricted to strikes and battles by workers within their work sites but were also evident in the entire realm of working-class material existence. Historical materialism has too often been reduced to what we might call historical economism, leaving out wider realms of life.”

Bellamy Foster also incorporates the contradiction between the Global North and the Global South, as well as the complex relationship between working people in the Global North and the Global South, into his analysis, stating:

“If there is a shortage of food or water available to the population in the Global South today, is this due primarily to economic or ecological factors? The fact is that such problems are more and more intertwined given the structural crisis of capital and combined economic and ecological crisis and catastrophe…

“The economic proletariat has often been constrained by the logic of trade unions and the struggle for wages and benefits. The environmental proletariat, which is simply a way of referring to the proletariat in terms of the full complexity of its material existence, is concerned with work relations but also the full range of material life conditions. Such a unified standpoint is necessarily more revolutionary and more capable of grappling with the problems of the age…

“In terms of the question of the more revolutionary character of workers in the Global South, there cannot be the slightest doubt. It is the workers in the periphery of the capitalist system who are faced with the sharp edge of imperialism… Not all of these revolutions have succeeded, of course… Nevertheless, it is the proletariat/peasantry in the Global South that has continually led the way, and where one consequently sees the most radical environmental-proletarian struggles today.”

Bellamy Foster is clear that the historic responsibility for the looming threat of climate catastrophe rests with the imperialist countries and not with China or other countries of the Global South and draws on the work of Jason Hickel, who “demonstrated in an important study in Lancet Planetary Health in September 2020, [that] if we subtract the actual emissions of countries from their fair share, we can then determine which countries have, in their historical emissions, generated excess or surplus emissions. What Hickel was able to determine based on 2014 data was that 40 percent of all excess carbon dioxide emissions in the world added to the atmosphere were attributable to the United States, and 92 percent to the rich nations of the Global North. Meanwhile, China and India both had zero excess emissions. The excess emissions of the countries of the Global North represent an enormous ecological debt in the form of a climate debt to the Global South.”

Jia and Bellamy Foster discuss the ideas advanced by James O’Connor, founding editor of Capitalism, Nature, Socialism, regarding capitalist and socialist approaches to development and the ecological crisis. Bellamy Foster notes that: “Socialism arises out of capitalism and thus is inherently infected by many of its contradictions. The world-economy as a whole is capitalist, which means that socialist countries have to navigate their way through all sorts of external contradictions imposed on them, not least of all imperialist pressures. Nevertheless, what differs between countries who are socialist (or postrevolutionary) and capitalist are the social relations of production, which open up all sorts of new opportunities. China, for example, though beset with ecological problems, has been able to develop modes of ecological management and planning that would be unthinkable in the Global North/West.”

Asked what China should emphasise to tackle the ecological crisis and build an ecological civilisation, he responds: “China’s approach to building an ecological civilisation is radically different from anything that exists in the West/Global North. Xi has made it clear that the goal is to alter the whole ‘developmental model and way of life’… This is achieving startling results.”

Tackling the question of the share of coal-fired plants in China’s energy consumption, which has so far dropped from 70% to around 56%, he continues:

“A big factor in China’s continuing reliance on coal has to do with energy security, not simply economics. Coal is the only fossil fuel that China has in abundance. With the United States launching a New Cold War on China during the Donald Trump administration, which has been carried forward and intensified under the Joe Biden administration, energy security has become a bigger issue for China. As Xi put it in a speech in October 2021, China ‘must hold the energy food bowl in its own hands.’ In this respect, Beijing is very conscious of the whole history of imperialism and how Western powers had imposed sanctions on it during the century of Western ‘gunboat’ interventions enforcing unequal treaties, something that only ended with the Chinese Revolution.”

Bellamy Foster does not accept the view that China’s emphasis on ecological civilisation has little to do with ecological Marxism, but is mainly rooted in traditional Chinese culture, “Yet, I also argued that the notion of ecological civilisation was developed in China as part of an ecological Marxism with Chinese characteristics, drawing on China’s own vernacular revolutionary tradition and thus on traditional Chinese culture… My way of thinking about this was very much influenced by the work of the great Marxist scientist and leading Western Sinologist Joseph Needham, the principal author of the massive multivolume Science and Civilisation in China.”

Finally, Bellamy Foster firmly locates his arguments in the context of the New Cold War primarily initiated by the United States against China:

“The United States is currently threatening the People’s Republic of China over Taiwan, which is internationally recognised—by the United States as well—as part of China, but with a different system, in accord with the One China Principle… In the context of declining US economic hegemony, Washington is insisting on a unipolar world, promoting military blocs aimed at China and Russia, and rejecting the actual multipolar development of the world at large, through the development of the BRICS… The US dollar’s role as the international reserve currency is being weaponised to sanction both Russia and China, along with all other nations that have challenged US dominance… The world is therefore on the edge of a Third World War, threatening the very existence of humankind. China’s response has been to launch in 2022 its Global Security Initiative, which constitutes the most comprehensive set of commitments for overall world security, including the security interests of all nations, that has ever been introduced.”

This interview, which is well worth reading in full, was first published in English in the September 2023 edition of Monthly Review. Conducted in English, the interview was also translated into Chinese and published in World Socialism Studies (Chinese Academy of Social Sciences) in April 2023.

Jia Keqing: John Bellamy Foster, thank you for taking time for this interview. You are a leading theorist of contemporary ecological Marxism. In recent years, you have published a large number of works on Marxism, especially ecological Marxism. Could you give us an overview of the current state of ecological Marxism research worldwide? For example, what are the representative scholars and representative journals?

John Bellamy Foster: In China, the term ecological Marxism is widely used, but in most discussions outside of Asia the term ecosocialism is more common. I use both terms, along with Marxian ecology. At present ecosocialism is how the actual on-the-ground movement is referred to in the West. Still, the term ecological Marxism is useful at times since not all ecosocialist currents are clearly Marxist. Indeed, some self-styled ecosocialists adopt a more social-democratic approach. Ecosocialism thus has a complex history.

In the 1980s and early ’90s, many of the most prominent ecosocialists, figures like Ted Benton, André Gorz, James O’Connor, and Joel Kovel, came out of the Marxist and New Left traditions but were highly critical of Karl Marx and the classical Marxist tradition as a whole for being what was termed Promethean (standing for an extreme industrialist and extreme productivist position) and for being anti-ecological. The main thrust was thus an eclectic combination of traditional Marxist positions on labor and class with a Green theory that was primarily ethical in nature. This also involved, in some cases, attempts to wed Marx with other figures, such as Thomas Malthus (falsely viewed as an environmental figure) or Karl Polanyi, who provided a more social-democratic political economy, sometimes characterized as more environmental than Marx’s analysis. For Benton, Marx had failed (in contrast to Malthus) to recognize environmental limits. For O’Connor and Joan Martínez-Alier, Marx had rejected ecological economics as presented by the Ukrainian Marxist Sergei Podolinsky—though later research proved this to be incorrect. In the case of Kovel, Marx’s main failure was to deny the intrinsic value of nature. Much of this was colored by reactions at the time to the demise of the Soviet Union and attempts to distance ecosocialism from core Marxist traditions.

Beginning in the late 1990s, these views were challenged by other ecosocialists who developed a tradition of Marxian ecology rooted primarily in the unearthing of Marx’s own ecological critique. At the center of this was Marx’s conceptualization of ecological crisis known as the theory of metabolic rift and the relationship of this to his economic value theory. Paul Burkett and I played a leading role in this reconstruction of classical Marxian ecology in Marx and Frederick Engels—Burkett in his Marx and Nature, me in Marx’s Ecology. Over the last two decades not only has our knowledge of Marx’s ecology expanded enormously, but this has been extended into a critique of contemporary capitalist ecological destruction in the work of such figures as Kohei Saito, Fred Magdoff, Andreas Malm, Brett Clark, Richard York, Ian Angus, Hannah Holleman, Del Weston, Eamonn Slater, Stefano Longo, Rebecca Clausen, Brian Napoletano, Nicolas Graham, Camilla Royle, Mauricio Betancourt, Martin Empson, Jason Hickel, Chris Williams, and a host of others. Ariel Salleh has come up with an analysis of metabolic value that integrates metabolic rift analysis with ecofeminist theory. Jason W. Moore developed a world-ecology approach that grew out of metabolic rift analysis, but eventually gravitated to posthumanism. Salvatore Engel-Di Mauro has written on socialist states and the environment.

The historian rewriting China’s understanding of the world

Qian Chengdan is one of China’s best-known but more elusive historians. In 2006, he was a key consultant for a major CCTV television series which analysed the rise and fall of nine world-historical empires. It was widely and correctly identified at the time as illustrating socialist China’s determination that its peaceful rise would never lead to the previous historical outcomes of colonialism, imperialism and hegemony.

Following this high-profile project, Professor Qian preferred to concentrate on his own niche interests, including publishing monographs on English history and translating The Cambridge Introduction to the History of Art.

However, he is now once again in the spotlight having led a team of scholars in a three-year project, resulting in An Outline of World History, which was published in June by Peking University Press. The publishers have described the work as “the first attempt by Chinese scholars to create a new system of knowledge for world history, and to use that system to write a history of the world.”

The book draws heavily on the work of Karl Marx, but, according to an article and abbreviated interview by Wu Haiyun carried by the popular Sixth Tone website, it has “taken pains to distance the work from that of earlier Soviet scholars, whom he believes were overly dogmatic and overlooked key aspects of Marx’s ideas.”

In the interview, Professor Qian says that:

“The Soviet system boils down to two elements: the ‘five modes’ and class struggle. The importance of class struggle to Marxism is well known, but many Chinese also learn about the five modes of production, which refer to the progression of human society from primitive communism to slavery, feudalism, capitalism, and ultimately a future communist society.

“The problem with the Soviet system was its absolutism. It rejected the idea of cultural diversity and posited that all regions and countries worldwide underwent the same process. This does not align with historical reality.”

His interviewer responded: “What you described as the two key points of the Soviet system are fundamental concepts that every Chinese person learns from an early age. Isn’t that standard Marxism? How exactly does your approach differ from the Soviet one?”

This drew the following response:

“In his book The German Ideology, Karl Marx provided a clear description of the formation of world history. He wrote, ‘the more the original isolation of the separate nationalities is destroyed by the developed mode of production and intercourse and the division of labour between various nations naturally brought forth by these, the more history becomes world history.’

“This is Marx’s own understanding of the formation of world history. Regrettably, his words were largely ignored by Soviet historians…This implies that human society is not only characterised by the progression from lower to higher stages but also by the transition from fragmentation to unity. From this perspective, we can see the superiority of Marx’s theory of world history… We aim to restore history to its authentic form, preserving its most genuine characteristics. In my view, Marx’s theory of ‘world history’ comes closest to grasping the essence of history. Sadly, his theory has long been overlooked.”

One of the things that is not explored in the interview is that Professor Qian’s rejection of simplistic and dogmatic interpretations of historical materialism, something by no means confined to many Soviet Marxists, but also to be found, for example, in many schools and adherents of Western Marxism, is essential to correctly understanding and appreciating the fact that a number of countries have embarked on the road of socialism without first going through the phase of capitalist development.

Concluding on a note of well-placed optimism, Professor Qian notes that:

“From the late 19th century to the early 20th century, the Western world, bolstered by capital and war, essentially gained control over the entire globe, leaving almost no room for the survival of non-Western civilisations. This was a comprehensive ‘horizontal’ shift. However, from that point onward, history has begun to reverse course, and the world today is markedly different from a century ago. Various regions are pursuing their unique development paths, and differences are becoming increasingly pronounced and apparent.”

We reprint the article and interview from Sixth Tone below.

Qian Chengdan might be the Platonic ideal of an ivory tower academic. The director of both Peking University’s Center for World History Research and its Institute of Area Studies, Qian occupies a prestigious perch at one of China’s top universities, but unlike many of his peers, he seems to have little interest in fame or attention: He rarely participates in public forums or sits for interviews, and he avoids all social media — even WeChat.

On the rare occasion Qian does descend from the ivory tower, however, he almost always leaves a mark. In 2006, Qian served as a key consultant on the acclaimed CCTV-produced documentary series “The Rise of the Great Powers,” which told the story of nine world-historical empires, from Portugal and Spain to Japan and the United States. It was one of the first extended introductions to world history aired on Chinese television — and a significant departure from past programming focused on China’s own history.

After the series aired, Qian quietly returned to academic life, eventually publishing a number of well-received monographs on world and English history while pursuing his passion project: translating “The Cambridge Introduction to the History of Art” in its entirety.

Hakainde Hichilema: China’s modernisation is a crucial reference point for Zambia

Zambian President Hakainde Hichilema paid a state visit to China from September 10-16, where, following talks with his counterpart Xi Jinping, the two countries upgraded their bilateral relationship to that of a comprehensive strategic cooperative partnership.

In this episode of the CGTN series Leaders Talk, President Hichilema recaps with Li Tongtong his six day journey through four provinces.

He started his visit in Shenzhen, China’s first special economic zone, visiting such cutting edge companies as the telecoms giant Huawei and the electric vehicle pioneer BYD. An enthusiast for China’s modernisation path, he next went to the Jinggangshan mountainous region in Jiangxi province, which was Chairman Mao’s first revolutionary base area in the fight he led to liberate China and the Chinese people. Hichilema opined that Mao had displayed great vision in selecting this region and he saw his own visit as a key part of completing his understanding of the jigsaw of China’s development.

In a similar vein, he also visited a fishing village and other local areas in Fujian province where Xi Jinping had worked and led at the grassroots level, especially in the areas of poverty alleviation and green development. He sees the leapfrog progression to digital development as a crucial reference point for Zambia’s own development path. Zambia needs to drive industrialisation, so that it does not simply extract its natural resources but also processes them to add value.

Zambia joined the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) in 2018 and tangible benefits so far include the stabilising of the energy sector, to eliminate the frequent power cuts known as ‘load shedding’, and the revival of the Tazara Railway, originally built by China in the 1970s to help free landlocked Zambia from the economic strangulation of its southern neighbours, then under European colonialist and white racist rule. The programme includes some moving footage from those years as a highlight of the long and consistent friendship between the two countries and peoples. Winning independence from British colonialism on October 24, 1964, Zambia established diplomatic relations with the People’s Republic of China just five days later, becoming the first country in southern Africa to do so.

The full interview with President Hichilema is embedded below.

Bashar al-Assad: China has gone from being the world’s factory to being the world’s innovation powerhouse

In this edition of the CGTN series Leaders Talk, Zou Yun interviews Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who was visiting China for the first time in 19 years. His 21-26 September visit began in Hangzhou, where he and his wife Mrs. Asma al-Assad were among the international leaders to attend the opening of the 19th Asian Games. Talks with his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping saw the two countries establish a strategic partnership and their agenda focused in particular on the Syrian people’s efforts to rebuild their country after years of war and its full return to the regional and international stage.

In the interview, President Assad was clearly touched by the warm and spontaneous welcome given by Chinese spectators to the Syrian athletes as they entered the stadium as well as by the subsequent comments by Chinese netizens on social media. Comparing the China of today with the one he saw on his previous visit in 2004, he said it had gone from being the world’s factory to being the world’s innovation powerhouse. But what was even more important than the changes was that the patriotic qualities of the Chinese people had not changed.

Reflecting on his talks with President Xi, the Syrian leader noted that China rejects hegemony and always stands with Syria politically. He felt that there was much that could be learned from the Chinese experience of modernisation as China’s own situation was once similar to that of many other third world countries. Syria and other countries, he continued, had once tried to learn from the western experience, but these attempts had proved to be unsuccessful and even counterproductive.

Turning to the current situation in Syria, Assad noted that the war is not over. The physical destruction could be addressed, as Syria had done many times in its long history, but the destruction of national culture and civilisation by western neoliberalism led by the United States, along with the related issue of extremism, was more dangerous. If Syria is rebuilt, he continued, his country will have a bright future. It had previously enjoyed high growth and low debt, was an exporter of wheat and other foodstuffs and had been developing various industries.

He praised the recent reconciliation between Iran and Saudi Arabia, which was facilitated by China, as a huge achievement and a wonderful surprise. Syria had suffered for years from the estrangement between these two neighbouring countries. According to the Syrian President, the world is now in a period of transition from the centuries of colonialism, which had begun with the “discovery” of the Americas, and which has been characterised by slaughter and exploitation. It is this transition that underlines the significance of the various international initiatives proposed by President Xi Jinping.

The full interview with President Bashar al-Assad is embedded below.

CGTN interview with Senegalese President Macky Sall

In this episode of the CGTN series Leaders Talk, filmed in the South African city of Johannesburg immediately following the BRICS Summit and the China/Africa Leaders Dialogue held in its margins in August, Wang Guan interviews President Macky Sall of Senegal.

President Sall sets out a strong case for the reform of international institutions formed in the wake of World War II. The world has changed greatly since then and reform is demanded by Africa and the Global South as we are moving towards a multipolar world.

Senegal was the first country in West Africa to sign up for the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) advanced by President Xi Jinping. President Sall extols his personal and friendly relationship with his Chinese counterpart and is full of praise for China’s relations with Africa.

China, he notes, once suffered aggression from the colonial powers, so today it shows empathy and humility in its dealings with others. Citing a recent discussion he held with French President Emmanuel Macron, he said that his message to Africa’s other partners is that we want the same from them. There is now a generation, including himself, born after the end of colonial rule, and they have a new mentality.

Turning to questions of development financing and foreign debt, Sall makes the point that China’s financing is based on requests made by Africa and priorities set by Africa. Refuting ideas of a ‘Chinese debt trap’, he notes that Africa’s debt to China is only some 12% of its total. Moreover, the interest rate is low, at a maximum of 2.5%, with a minimum repayment period of 20 years, and a grace period before payments become due that is generally longer than that offered by others.

Furthermore, citing a China-built expressway in his country as an example, because China’s projects are built quickly, they can often be generating revenue for a few years before any loan repayments fall due.

The full interview with President Macky Sall is embedded below.

Comorian President Azali Assoumani: Africa can rely on China

In this episode of the CGTN series, Leaders Talk, Wang Guan interviews Azali Assoumani, President of the Union of the Comoros, who is also this year’s rotating Chair of the African Union (AU). The president of the Indian Ocean island country was interviewed in South Africa’s largest city, Johannesburg, where he was attending the BRICS Summit in late August, alongside the related China/Africa Leaders Dialogue.

President Assoumani was very positive both about the role in international affairs currently being played by the BRICS cooperation mechanism as well as for the prospects of an expanded BRICS Plus, which was first proposed by China. Citing the two examples of the disproportionate control exercised by the western powers over the traditional international financial institutions, as well as the allocation of Covid vaccines, he notes that he had discussed the latter issue with his South African counterpart Cyril Ramaphosa several times. Africa, he points out, has the ability to produce its own vaccines, an area where South Africa, Senegal, Morocco and Egypt, among other countries, have already taken a continental lead.

The Comorian leader was also emphatic on the need for industrialisation, so that Africa can export finished goods and not just raw materials. While the era of political colonialism may be largely over, that of economic colonialism is not. Often Africa exports raw materials and then imports finished goods made from them at ten, twenty or even thirty times the original export price. He therefore endorses the priorities China has set for its economic cooperation with Africa, namely industrialisation, agricultural modernisation and upscaling of the African workforce.

On agricultural modernisation, he highlights the centrality of both food processing and storage, the latter being of particular importance given the propensity of many African countries to drought and to resultant famine.

The president is also an advocate of the growing trend towards dedollarisation. Noting the successful development of the BRICS-initiated New Development Bank (NDB), he says this shows that BRICS countries could also find their way towards a common currency.

Assoumani praises China’s long standing commitment to Africa and notes that the Asian country has been fuelling Comoros’ deveopment. China was one of the first countries to recognise Comoros when it finally won independence from French colonial rule in 1975. China has always supported and stood by Comoros, he says. Therefore Comoros must also do everything it can to support China. Drawing on a popular Comorian saying, he asserts that China is now becoming a wall on which not just his country, but Africa and indeed the whole world can rely.

Africa and China, he notes, have a bond of brothers. Some other countries may be jealous of this relationship, but they, too, could enjoy a similar relationship if they treated their African counterparts as friends and brothers.

Located at the northern end of the Mozambique Channel in the Indian Ocean, Comoros consists of four main islands and numerous smaller islands. However, France remains in colonial occupation of Mayotte, one of the major islands, making this issue part of the unfinished business of African decolonisation. France has even vetoed UN Security Council resolutions that would affirm Comorian sovereignty over the island. The CGTN commentary correctly refers to Mayotte as part of the sovereign territory of the Union of the Comoros.

The full interview with President Assoumani is embedded below.

Dilma Rousseff: China’s poverty alleviation a historic event in the story of human development

In this edition of the CGTN series, Leaders Talk, conducted in May but only recently screened, essentially coinciding with the BRICS summit in South Africa, Zou Yun interviews Dilma Rousseff, former President of Brazil and now President of the BRICS-initiated New Development Bank (NDB). The interview was recorded at the bank’s Shanghai headquarters. As President of Brazil in 2014, Dilma was one of the signatories to the founding document of the bank.

Dilma explains how developing countries and emerging markets of the Global South need investment, for example in physical and digital infrastructure so as to improve their people’s lives. But they suffer from problems such as a lack of access to credit and the non-convertibility of their currencies. The latter, in particular, contributes to reinforcing dollar hegemony, which adversely affects them, whether in terms of susceptibility to changes in US interest rates or the US propensity to arbitrarily impose sanctions and exercise ‘long-arm jurisdiction’, seeking to impose US domestic legislation on others. Therefore, conducting at least a portion of external trade in local currencies is vital. It is related to the development of a multipolar world.

According to Dilma, the US’ imposition of punitive tariffs on China is a grave mistake. Not only does it cause economic problems for China – it fragments global supply chains and impacts economic growth in a way unfavourable to all countries. She notes that 40 years ago, China was an impoverished country, but today it is the world’s second greatest economy. US tactics such as ‘friend shoring’, she notes, can be no substitute for China’s huge market.

Regarding US sanctions policy, Dilma insists that they are effectively just another form of war. Their aim is to prevent development and negatively impact the lives of the people, with the aim of triggering a change of system.

In contrast, she expresses her strong support for the series of international initiatives put forward by President Xi Jinping, which she considers have peace and development at their core. She further describes Xi as a great leader, who has appeared at the right time and place. During her term of office, and under President Lula, Brazil succeeded in lifting 36 million people out of absolute poverty. She knows the challenges that had to be met to achieve that, so lifting 800 million people out of poverty, as China has done, is a historic event in the story of human development.

The full interview with Dilma Rousseff is embedded below.

Global Times interview with Carlos Martinez

What follows below is the full text of a written interview of Friends of Socialist China co-editor Carlos Martinez, conducted by the Global Times.

The interview deals with a wide range of issues, including the New Cold War on China, the nature of Chinese socialism, the Belt and Road Initiative, capitalist versus socialist democracy, and anti-China propaganda in the Western media.

An abridged version was published in the Global Times on 31 August 2023.

Could you please briefly introduce yourself to us? When did you start to study China? And what made you start to be interested in the country?

I’m an author and campaigner from London, Britain, with a longstanding interest in the socialist countries and global anti-imperialism. My first book, released in 2019, was about the reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union. I was involved in setting up the No Cold War campaign in 2020, and the Friends of Socialist China platform in 2021.

There were two main motivations for me to start studying China. The first comes from being a Marxist and wanting to understand how socialism is constructed in the real world. The second comes from being anti-imperialist and anti-war, and wanting to understand China’s role in the development of a peaceful and multipolar world.

The more I study China, the more I realise how poorly it’s understood in the West. In recent years, the anti-China propaganda in the media has been increasingly intense, corresponding to the rise of the US-led New Cold War. Many people have this absurd idea of China as some sort of authoritarian dystopia that’s intent on taking over the world. Many people believe the media’s disgraceful slanders about the suppression of human rights in Xinjiang, and so on.

China is misunderstood even on the left: lots of people believe that, because China uses market mechanisms, or because there are some very rich people in China, that it can’t be socialist any more. But then how do we explain China’s achievements? China has raised living standards beyond recognition; it’s become the world leader in renewable energy; it’s gone from being a poor and backward country to being a science and technology powerhouse; it’s leading the global shift to multipolarity; its life expectancy now exceeds that of the US. All this is historic and unprecedented progress, on a scale which has never been achieved by any capitalist country. Why on earth would the left want to attribute these successes to capitalism rather than socialism?

Azerbaijani president: Belt and Road an important contribution to Central Asia’s development

In this recent episode of the CGTN series, Leaders Talk, Wang Guan, travels to the Azerbaijani capital, Baku, to sit down with President Ilham Aliyev.

He notes that this year is the 100th birth anniversary of the current president’s father, former President Heydar Aliyev, who is, it is noted, not only the founding father of independent Azerbaijan, but also of China-Azerbaijan friendship.

President Aliyev emphasises that his father created a framework for cooperation with China based on mutual respect and friendship. And, as illustrated in photos shown by Wang Guan, during his China visits, Heydar Aliyev also took particular care to visit ordinary Chinese families and to learn about their daily lives.

President Aliyev noted that his father was already well aware of developments in China from the time when he served in the Soviet government. In the history of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU), Heydar Aliyev held the highest position ever attained by someone of Muslim heritage.

The current president considers the relations between China and Azerbaijan to be on a long journey of strategic cooperation. They are based on an alignment of major positions in international relations, for example with regard to sovereignty, territorial integrity and non-interference in internal affairs.

All this also helps to create a favourable backdrop for economic cooperation, particularly within the framework of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), which, in turn, contributes to regional security, stability and development. The progress of the BRI enables Azerbaijan to leverage its geographical location to its advantage, through the development of both the Caspian seaport and international rail links.

Noting that he has met President Xi Jinping on many occasions, both in China and at international gatherings, Aliyev describes his Chinese counterpart as a person of vision and intelligence. This, he notes, contributes to the fact that the number of international friends of China is growing year by year.

Aliyev also praises China for the assistance it provides to other countries, particularly when other countries refuse to do so. For example, China was the only country to supply Covid-19 vaccines to Azerbaijan when they were first developed. His letter to President Xi drew an immediate response, making Azerbaijan one of the first countries to start a vaccination programme during the global pandemic.

With regard to the question of Taiwan, he said that Azerbaijan always supports China’s territorial integrity and reunification. HIs country’s support for the one-China principle is absolutely unchanged and will never be changed.

Turning to negative western perceptions of developing countries like China and Azerbaijan, Aliyev says that the basic reason is his country’s pursuit of independent policies based on the national interest. Besides the western media, President Aliyev also excoriated the role played by supposedly independent NGOs such as Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, noting that their agendas did not diverge from those of their funders.

The full interview with President Aliyev is embedded below.

Algerian President: No matter how the world changes, our friendship with China will remain unchanged

Algerian President Abdelmadjid Tebboune paid a state visit to China, from July 17-21 2023. During this visit, shortly after his meeting with President Xi Jinping, he sat down with CGTN’s Li Tongtong to record an episode of the channel’s Leaders Talk series.

The Algerian leader began by expressing his people’s “sincere admiration for the great nation of China.” Algeria and China, he noted, share a similar history of development. Both of them started from scratch. Algeria endured 130 years of colonialism, but friendly countries like China helped both during the struggle for national liberation and when embarking on the road of development.

Li Tongtong noted the emotional way in which Xi Jinping had recalled how the two countries had stood together against imperialism and colonialism.

China was the first non-Arab country to recognise the Algerian provisional government, 65 years ago, at the height of the liberation war. China’s very first overseas medical team was sent to Algeria in 1963 – they were the first foreign doctors to reach the newly liberated country, which was then in dire need of medical assistance. In 1971, together with Albania, Algeria was the key sponsor of UN Resolution 2758, which restored China’s UN seat to its legitimate government.

President Tebboune said that China and Algeria had shared the same experiences. China had suffered from war, poverty and famine, but the indomitable Chinese people, under the leadership of revolutionaries like Chairman Mao Zedong, had fought hard for a better future and now China stands tall in the world.

Beijing’s action, in recognising the Algerian provisional government, he continued, had helped his country to win a complete victory in the war of liberation, and to embark on a new journey hand in hand with friends like China.

President Tebboune expressed great confidence in Xi Jinping, who he described as a wise leader. The weight on his shoulders is immense. China’s new path of development has implications for the whole world and many countries are looking to China. Algeria wholeheartedly supports him.

Algeria, which was the first Arab country to enter into a comprehensive strategic partnership with China, and which joined the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) in 2018, is seeking to deepen its economic cooperation with China, which has long been its main partner in infrastructure development and other areas. One plan is for a railway to link the north and south of this vast country. Algeria’s first satellite, itself the first product of Sino-Algerian aerospace collaboration, is proudly featured on an Algerian banknote.

According to President Tebboune: “True friends step forward in times of adversity. So we are very clear about who our friends are and who are not. No matter how the world changes or what difficulties we face, our friendship with China will remain unchanged.”

Algeria, he noted, explaining the basis of his country’s regional and foreign policy, had struggled for national liberation, justice and freedom, and this had entered deep into the Algerian people’s subconscious. The Algerian people had paid a heavy price for these ideals. Fifteen percent of the total population at the time had sacrificed their lives in the national liberation war. So Algeria is very clear – it supports national liberation and rejects hegemonism of any kind. Some powers were now pursuing attempts at neo-colonialism, but the African peoples, he said, have awakened.

Referring to last November’s reconciliation agreement between 14 Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, which was brokered in Algiers with his country’s mediation, President Tebboune said Algeria pursued no selfish interest in this. Palestine’s strength lies in unity. The older generation of his country’s leaders had said that Algeria’s independence would be incomplete without the independence of Palestine and his country always adhered to this.

Algeria is striving for a multipolar world together with China and looked forward to joining the BRICS cooperation mechanism and its New Development Bank.

The full interview with President Tebboune is embedded below. Our previous report on his state visit to China can be read here.

Solomon Islands PM: establishing relations with China one of the best decisions in our history

In this episode of the CGTN series Leaders Talk, Zou Yun interviews the Prime Minister of Solomon Islands Manasseh Sogavare at the start of his second official visit to China in July. Sogavare came to China nearly four years after his previous visit, which marked the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries. This time, he officially opened his country’s embassy in Beijing and the two countries formally established a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership of Mutual Respect and Common Development in the New Era. When asked how he felt to be visiting China again, he simply says: “It’s good to be back home.”

Solomon Islands finally won independence from British colonial rule in 1978, but Sogavare repeatedly describes the decades between the proclamation of independence and the establishment of diplomatic relations with China as ones of “wandering in the wilderness”. This strikingly biblical phrase doubtlessly reflects his own Seventh Day Adventist faith, as well as the deep religious sentiments of the Solomon Islands people as a whole, and therefore, in turn, his deep attachment to the China relationship, which, despite being just under four years old, has been on the fast track to become a model of solidarity, cooperation and joint development between large and small countries and between developing countries. For Sogavare, the establishment of diplomatic relations was one of the best decisions made in his country’s history and he praises the attitude he ascribes to President Xi Jinping that, “no country is too small; no one comes too late.”

In the very short history of diplomatic relations between his country and China, Sogavare asserts that the achievements have been huge, not least China’s provision of the national stadium, where Solomon Islands will host the Pacific Games this year. He expresses himself vehemently with regard to those countries who have criticised his relations with China, saying that, “we are a sovereign state and who we have diplomatic relations with and who we develop cooperation with is no one’s business.” He dismisses the theory of a ‘Chinese debt trap’ as “nonsense”, saying that some countries are afraid that they are losing their grip over the small island states.

Establishing relations with China was the best decision because his country is struggling for development. Decades after independence, Solomon Islands is still aid dependent and the country is still poor, despite its immense resources and potential, including in forestry, marine resources, minerals and tourist attractions. Unless his country realigned itself to open up to the opportunities provided by China, he feared it would remain poor forever. Asked about his impressions of President Xi Jinping, he singles out his leadership in lifting the Chinese people out of poverty. This does not simply happen by chance and is something that other countries should emulate.

As the leader of a Pacific Island country, and home to some of the world’s greatest diversity of corals and coral reef species, Sogavare expressed serious and grave concern with regard to both the Japanese plan to release contaminated water from the Fukushima nuclear reactor into the ocean and the AUKUS agreement between Australia, the UK and the US that will see the introduction of nuclear powered submarines into the South Pacific. The South Pacific countries had jointly sent the Prime Minister of Cook Islands to Japan to convey their concern.

Regarding the AUKUS agreement, he explained that the first he had heard of this was on the media – the countries concerned had not even had the courtesy to inform Solomon Islands. This is despite the fact that both Australia and Solomon Islands are signatories to the 1986 South Pacific Nuclear Free Zone Treaty, also known as the Treaty of Rarotonga. The South Pacific, he says, is very clear on its nuclear free policy, citing the impact of the nuclear tests on Moruroa (a part of Polynesia still under French colonial rule) and the continued suffering of the people there.

Finally, Prime Minister Sogavare speaks of his personal admiration for the Chinese martial arts icon Bruce Lee. Himself a Second Dan (black belt) in the Japanese Shotokan school of karate, it was Bruce Lee who inspired him to take up the martial arts seriously and the Prime Minister recalls how meaningful it was for him to visit Lee’s Hong Kong home in 1997.

The full interview with Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare is embedded below.

Is the East still red? Interview with Carlos Martinez on Black Agenda Radio

In late June 2023, Margaret Kimberley hosted Friends of Socialist China co-editor Carlos Martinez on Black Agenda Radio to talk about Carlos’s recently-released book, The East is Still Red: Chinese Socialism in the 21st Century.

The two discuss a number of topics, including the rationale for the book’s name; the issue of whether or not China is a socialist country; the reasons behind China’s phenomenal economic rise; the escalating New Cold War; China’s foreign policy; and more.

Nicaragua’s new mutually beneficial relations with China

In the following interview with journalist Erving Vega, Laureano Ortega, the Adviser to the President of Nicaragua for Investment Issues, International Trade and Cooperation, provides an overview of the wide scale and broad reach of the cooperation between China and Nicaragua, since the two countries re-established their diplomatic relations in December 2021.

Laureano, who played a key part in the negotiations on resuming diplomatic relations, affirms that “it is important to frame where this cooperation comes from; first of all, we reiterate that this comes from the historical relationship of two brother parties, the Sandinista National Liberation Front Party and the Communist Party of China, and then, in an ideological and political affinity, of shared objectives.” He explains that Nicaragua fully supports all the important initiatives put forward by Chinese President Xi Jinping, such as the Belt and Road Initiative, Global Development Initiative, Global Security Initiative and Global Civilization Initiative, noting that: “In these turbulent times in the world, these proposals, that have emerged from President Xi Jinping give us a light, a hope, a path of hope, a guide on how to achieve fair development and equal and respectful treatment by the international community. That is very important.”

The interview was conducted the day after work began on a Chinese project to build 12,000 new homes for social housing in the Nicaraguan capital, Managua. This is just one of numerous projects agreed during a visit from the President of the Chinese International Cooperation Agency for Development, which “will give great benefits to the Nicaraguan people.”

Noting how China had previously provided Nicaragua with three million vaccines to fight Covid-19, along with respirators, materials for the neonatal sector and other much needed equipment, Laureano outlines other areas of his country’s collaboration with China, including donations of wheat and fertilizers, scholarships for Nicaraguan university students, cultural exchanges, renewable energy, telecommunications, infrastructure, mining, and fisheries. “We see that the Chinese comrades work as we do, with a deep sense of social commitment, with a deep sense of humanism, of humanity, and it is not only for mercantilist profit, but there is truly a work that is of mutual benefit: ‘If you do well, I do well too’.”

The two countries are making rapid progress on a Free Trade Agreement, which is expected to enter into force next year.

The interview was originally published in Spanish by Tortilla con Sal. This version was published in English translation by Chicago ALBA Solidarity.

Nicaragua’s Housing Program with China is Building 12,000 New Homes

Laureano Ortega: Yesterday we inaugurated the first phase of the Housing Program, which is a first step, a very significant emblematic step, because it is the first Social Benefit Infrastructure Program to be developed in Nicaragua, with the cooperation of the People’s Republic of China.

The first step I say, because during the visit of the Chinese International Cooperation Agency for Development we have reviewed a large portfolio of projects, so that the prospects for cooperation with them are very large and that will give great benefits to the Nicaraguan people.

Erving Vega: We are motivated by the interview precisely to learn or go into a little more depth about this visit. A large Chinese delegation headed by the President of the Cooperation Agency was in the country this weekend [April 15-16]. What did they talk about? What are the topics on the agenda? And in this context the inauguration or launching of the Project; I say huge because we are talking about more than 12,000 houses.

LO: That’s right. It is a huge Project for Nicaragua because everything, of course in its due proportion, historic because of what it symbolizes. But it is also enormous because of the benefits, the number of families that will benefit, the Decent Roof that our Nicaraguan families, not only in Managua, but also in Chinandega, Estelí, Rivas, Masaya, Leon, the cities that are part of the program that will be developed over the next few years, as it should be, with these infrastructure programs that also take time of formulation and execution, to make them well, to make them right.

CGTN interview with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas

In this latest instalment of the CGTN series, Leaders Talk, Wang Guan interviews Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas during his recent state visit to China.

Abbas says that that the upgrading of relations between China and Palestine to that of a strategic partnership this time is of great significance. It is a good fortune to the Palestinian people that China always firmly stands on their side and provides assistance to them. Agreements reached during this visit include major projects in economy, agriculture, sister city programs, and so on.

The Palestinian leader regards China’s brokering of reconciliation between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and the resulting steps to resolve other disputes, both long-standing and more recent, in the region, as a miracle, adding that all Arabs are pleased with China’s efforts.

In response to his interviewer’s observation that the Palestinian issue is at the heart of Middle Eastern politics, but no progress has been made in its resolution due to the unbalanced US position, Abbas notes that Israel has discussed a ‘two-state solution’ but not enacted it. The US, he explains, acts as a roadblock, with little interest in solving the Palestinian issue. However, the United States also once refused to recognise Nelson Mandela and supported the racist policy of apartheid in South Africa, but they eventually capitulated and changed their stance.

Asked for his impressions of Chinese leader Xi Jinping, Abbas described him as a dear friend, both to himself and to the Palestinian people – a man who keeps his promises and never resorts to empty talk. Palestine, he continued, stands with China on the Taiwan issue. “If any country opposes China, we will resolutely oppose them and firmly stand with China.”

At the age of 13, Abbas, together with his family, had to leave their home and become refugees in Syria at the time of the Palestinian Nakba in 1948. Abbas reflects: “Our land was seized by others and Palestinians were forced into displacement. Today we are still fighting to return to our homeland and establish an independent Palestinian state.” The Palestinian President, who has visited China a total of 13 times, five of them as state visits, says that one significant similarity between the Palestinian and Chinese peoples is their determination to tirelessly strive for their goals once they have resolved to do so.

The full interview with President Abbas is embedded below.

Blinken’s visit and Biden’s true colors: imperialist arrogance toward China

In this informative discussion on Breakthrough News, Brian Becker and Ken Hammond address the latest developments in US-China relations, in particular Antony Blinken’s visit to Beijing and Joe Biden’s labelling of Xi Jinping as a “dictator”.

The two note that there was some short-lived optimism following Blinken’s visit that there could genuinely be scope for improving US-China relations, which are currently at their lowest ebb in half a century. Blinken had a lengthy discussion with Chinese foreign minister Qin Gang, as well as meeting separately with President Xi and Wang Yi, China’s top diplomat. The Chinese Foreign Ministry reported that Wang Yi reiterated China’s baseline – and entirely reasonable – demands: “that the US stop playing up the so-called ‘China threat’, lift illegal unilateral sanctions against China, stop suppressing China’s scientific and technological advances, and not wantonly interfere in China’s internal affairs.” Blinken meanwhile asserted that the US is committed to “managing differences responsibly and cooperating in areas of common interests.”

However, Biden’s foolish comments about the so-called spy balloon incident, in which he referred to Xi Jinping as a “dictator”, almost immediately wiped out any goodwill resulting from the Blinken visit. Ken observes that Biden’s comment betrays the US administration’s profound hostility towards China, and its fear of China’s rise. This fear, combined with the continued need of US capitalism to engage economically with China, leads to erratic and confused statements and policies.

Brian points to certain parallels between the McCarthyism of the Cold War era and the New McCarthyism of the New Cold War, including a nasty, racist and deeply antidemocratic witch-hunt. He points out, however, that China’s integration into the global economy means that attacks on China also cause significant harm to the West. Furthermore, import restrictions on Chinese products such as solar panels lead to inflated prices for US consumers and are impeding meaningful climate action. As such, the New Cold War is damaging for ordinary people in the West.

Ken and Brian describe the US as being addicted to war, and observe that the propaganda war against China is part of a broader war drive. They call for a determined struggle against this propaganda war.

Professor Hammond’s new book, China’s Revolution and the Quest for a Socialist Future, is available on 1804 Books.

Interview with DR Congo President Felix Tshisekedi

President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC), Félix Tshisekedi, paid a state visit to China, from May 24-29, visiting Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and Hong Kong. During his visit, President Tshisekedi was interviewed by Wang Guan for the CGTN series, Leaders Talk.

Noting that he had never visited China before, Tshisekedi congratulated the country on its achievements in modernization, pointing out that, in the late 1960s, China and Congo were at approximately the same level of economic development. The leap China has made, he continued, is impressive. The Chinese model is one that he would like to emulate and replicate in his own country.

Asked why he had made a point of laying a wreath at the Monument to the People’s Heroes and visiting the Museum of the Communist Party of China, Tshisekedi explained that there are notable parallels between the history of the two countries. They had both suffered from poverty and famine. But China has leveraged its strength and resources to escape from this legacy. Coming to China to see how this had been achieved was, he said, important to him. Regarding some of the negative things said about China by some international voices, he noted that to ensure the safety of more than one billion people, in terms of food security, education and health, is an enormous challenge. Rather than condemn China, he is inspired by its achievements and seeks to build a strong friendship.

Surveying some of the key areas of enhanced cooperation agreed during his visit, the President cited climate change, where the bilateral partnership could benefit the whole world, particularly with the DRC being the most biodiverse country in Africa.

He also laid strong emphasis on the need for the DRC to stop being purely an extractive site for its vast mineral wealth. By moving to refining, jobs would be created and development promoted. China, he explained, had agreed to join hands to promote the industrialisation of the DRC. Without added value, Tshisekedi asserts that Congo’s vast resources are virtually worthless in terms of the country’s development needs. The same could be said for its agricultural produce. Tshisekedi is grateful to China for its understanding and support, which is already producing tangible results, for example in terms of Chinese investment in battery manufacturing facilities that are crucial for renewable energy.

Development is a pressing need and for this peace and security are also needed. In Tshisekedi’s view, Xi Jinping’s concepts of the Global Development Initiative, Global Security Initiative and Global Civilization Initiative can all be of immense benefit to the DRC as well as to Africa as a whole. The DRC and Africa need China to stand alongside them in the search for peace and as a partner for development.

Moving to the end of the interview, President Tshisekedi struck an optimistic note. One day, he insisted, the DRC would achieve zero poverty. It is possible. China has done it.

The full interview with President Tshisekedi is embedded below.

Chen Weihua on the New Cold War, Taiwan and Ukraine

On the road in Brussels, Friends of Socialist China co-editor Danny Haiphong caught up with the prominent Chinese journalist Chen Weihua (China Daily’s EU bureau chief) for a very interesting interview.

Chen comments at length on the New Cold War and the deterioration in US-China relations during the Trump administration. Having worked in the US for several years during the Obama years, Chen witnessed a far healthier bilateral relationship, characterized mainly by cooperation – in spite of the launch of the Pivot to Asia, which obviously heralded a strategic shift on the part of the US. However, Trump dismantled the policy of engagement that had been in place since the restoration of relations between the two countries in the 1970s and, sadly, the Biden administration has been no improvement when it comes to US-China relations. Biden on the campaign trail criticized Trump’s trade war, but in office he’s continued and deepened it.

Regarding the Taiwan issue, Chen Weihua appealed to US politicians to not undermine the One China Principle or attempt to change the status quo over Taiwan. He stated that there is a consensus in China in favor of peaceful national reunification, and a general understanding that this process may take considerable time. For the US to encourage Taiwanese separatism and stoke the flames of conflict in the region is dangerous and ill-advised.

Video interview with Eritrean President Isaias Afwerki

In this edition of the CGTN series Leaders Talk, Zou Yun interviews Eritrean President Isaias Afwerki during the latter’s recent state visit to China.

Speaking on the day after his talks with Chinese President Xi Jinping, and on the eve of the 30th anniversary of the counties’ diplomatic relations, which were established on the day that Eritrea proclaimed its independence, President Afwerki situated the bilateral relationship within what he described as the broader context of the historic mission of humanity. China had immediately stood on the side of the right of the Eritrean people to independence. Independence is the foundation of any international relationship. China, he said, stands on the side of the people of the world. And Eritrea, in solidarity with China, continues to uphold a mission for humanity.

The interview discussed the recent fallout from the conflict in Sudan, where Eritrea had assisted Chinese people who were being evacuated from the war-struck country, while China had also helped Eritrean people to leave Sudan. The Eritrean president described this as “our commitment to our common cause”. In words that should shame British government ministers, he described how Eritrea had opened its borders to refugees – “No visa. No permissions. Everything is open for saving human lives.”

There was a need, Afwerki said, to create a new world order. No people can survive without solidarity and what China has achieved, both domestically and internationally, is very attractive to people around the world.

Saying that the future is bright, the Eritrean leader was of the view that hegemonism “is no longer the rule of the game” because of what China has achieved.

Turning to the sanctions imposed on his country by the United States and some other countries, Afwerki described them as the product of a sick mind. Such sanctions, he said, are imposed on all those who defend their independence and sovereignty. Sanctions have inflicted tremendous damage on Eritrea and its development, but they have also taught a powerful lesson with regard to the struggle that needs to be waged to build a nation and have made the Eritrean people more determined to continue that struggle.

Zou Yun referred to President Afwerki as having a “special bond” with China. Over 50 years ago, at the age of 20, he came to China and spent two years in military and political training at the dawn of the Eritrean revolution. Questioned on this period, he said that he learned so much in a short time and what he had learned had changed lives. The main lesson, he said, was the commitment of the country’s leaders and the Communist Party to the people. This has provided a model of success for everyone. China had been considered a backward country by others, but now it is reshaping the global order.

The full interview with President Isaias Afwerki is embedded below.

Introducing ‘The East is Still Red – Chinese socialism in the 21st century’

Friends of Socialist China co-editor Carlos Martinez was interviewed by Sean Blackmon on the Sputnik Radio show By Any Means Necessary about his new book, The East is Still Red – Chinese socialism in the 21st century.

Carlos talks about his motivations for writing the book, the crucial importance of opposing the US-led New Cold War, the necessity for Marxists to understand and defend Chinese socialism, and the ever-contentious question of whether contemporary China is indeed socialist.

The full interview can be viewed on Rumble.

Find out more about the book | Buy the book | Join the book launch on 4 June 2023

Interview with Roland Boer on the nature of Chinese socialism

In this very interesting and detailed discussion, Roland Boer and Ben Norton delve into a number of the key issues from Roland’s book Socialism with Chinese Characteristics: A Guide for Foreigners. The core of the discussion is around answering the left critique of China’s post-1978 economic reforms: that these constitute a return to capitalism; that Deng Xiaoping and his colleagues were capitalist roaders who sought to overturn socialism via the introduction of market mechanisms.

Roland points out that markets go back thousands of years, long pre-dating capitalism. As such, there’s no equals sign between capitalism and markets; markets existed before capitalism and they can exist after capitalism. The question for socialists is how to use markets within a socialist context; how to use market mechanisms within a framework of an overall planned economy which is directed at meeting the immediate and long-term needs of the people, and preparing the ground for an eventual transition to a classless society.

Roland makes an important distinction between two key aspects of socialism: that of common ownership of the means of production, and liberation of the productive forces. The two do not necessarily always advance in neat and predictable correlation. This is something that is understood by all existing socialist societies – in China, Vietnam, Cuba, Laos and the DPRK. Deng Xiaoping and his colleagues understood very well that a high level of the productive forces was a material prerequisite for China’s development of an advanced socialism and ultimately for communism. The whole purpose of the reform process has been to develop China’s productive forces whilst simultaneously pursuing the fundamental socialist objective of improving people’s lives. On both counts, the process has been phenomenally successful.

Ben contrasts the level of development and living standards in India and China, noting that hundreds of millions in India continue to face devastating poverty, while China is responsible for at least 70 percent of all poverty alleviation in the last four decades. He points out that this disparity is primarily a manifestation of the two countries having different social systems.

The two take on a number of other key questions, including the nature of socialist democracy, the treatment of migrant workers, the household responsibility system, corruption, and the consolidation of Marxism in China under the leadership of President Xi Jinping.

The video was first posted on Ben’s Geopolitical Economy Report channel.