The following is an extensive interview with the French left-wing leader Jean-Luc Mélenchon that was conducted by Tariq Ali, the veteran writer and activist, and that was originally published on Sidecar, the blog published by New Left Review.
In their wide-ranging discussion Mélenchon makes a number of important comments about China – to which he has consistently advocated a position of friendship – which are especially significant coming from probably the most important leader of the contemporary European left.
Asked by Ali about the significance of the recent conflict between Iran and Israel, and specifically the role played by the United States, Mélenchon responds:
“We must try to understand the rationale of these Western states. It’s not simply that Trump is crazy or that the Europeans are cowards; maybe they are those things, but what they are doing is nonetheless based on a long-term plan, one that has failed in the past but is now in the process of being realized. The plan is, first, to reorganize the entire Middle East to secure access to oil for the countries of the Global North; and, second, to create the conditions for war with China.”
This theme is further developed in the two men’s conversation, with Tariq Ali positing:
“You mentioned that the second part of America’s plan is conflict with China. A lot of liberals and left-liberals are now finally recoiling from the events in Middle East and saying that our real target should be China. But what they don’t realize is that the real target is China, because, as you say, if the United States controls all the region’s oil – as it would if Iran were to fall – then they would control the flow of this basic commodity. They could force Beijing to beg for it, which would help to keep it in check. So the US strategy in the Middle East might seem completely crazy – and it is crazy on various levels – but there is also a deep logic behind it: that it’s better to fight China in this way than to go to war with it. This has already started to create huge problems across the East. I noticed that the leaders of Japan nor South Korea, two countries that have major US military bases, abruptly cancelled plans to attend the NATO summit in June.”
Mélenchon replies: “The conflict between the US and China is over trade and resource networks, and in some respects the Chinese have already won, because they produce almost everything the world consumes. They have no interest in fighting a war because they are already satisfied with their global influence. Yet this is both a strength and a weakness. When 90% of Iranian oil goes to China, for instance, blocking the Strait of Hormuz would cut off crucial supply chains and bring a large part of Chinese production to a halt. So China is vulnerable on that front. You are right to say that some in the West would prefer a cold war to a hot war, encirclement and containment rather than direct conflict. But these are nuances, and in reality it is easy to move from one to the other. One of [former US President] Biden’s top economic advisors said that there is no ‘commercial solution’ to the problem of competition with China, which means there can only be a military one.
“The point about Japan and Korea is also significant. Not only them, but also many other powers in the region, are now strengthening ties with China. Vietnam was supposed to be in the US bloc, but they’ve signed agreements with the Chinese. So has India, despite the tensions between the two countries. The backdrop here is that, throughout much of Asia, capitalism is still defined by dynamic forces of trade and production, whereas in the US it has assumed a predatory and tributary character.”
He recalls that: “I once had an interesting conversation with a Chinese leader. When I said to him that China was flooding the European market with its overproduction of electric cars, he replied, ‘Mr. Mélenchon, do you think there are too many electric cars in the world?’ Of course I had to answer ‘no’. Then he said: ‘We’re not forcing you to buy our products; it’s up to you whether you want to purchase them.’ Here was a Communist explaining to me the benefits of free trade.
Continue reading Jean-Luc Mélenchon discusses China with Tariq Ali